I bolded a part in a direct response: No, that isn't what I am saying at all. Pokemon BR (much like similar "hardcore" games in the same vein) is aimed at a very specific audience... Which is Pokemon fans in this case. I own a copy myself, though it is not all glamor and glitz of other games deemed "hardcore," I can still find about an hour a week worth of entertainment from it. It's because I am a fan of the basic Pokemon games (spin-offs so far sucked), so owning this was an understandable choice for me. Now if you were a large Zelda fan, this game isn't "hardcore" at all to you, let alone any of it's related games. That is what I meant, not by the people who stuck through Nintendo since the NES, or defended the Gamecube with whatever they got, but just basic Pokemon fans. Hell, Nintendo didn't even make the game, Genious Senority did. Not sure if Nintendo owns them now, I'll look into it.Originally Posted by Game Guru
I digress though, all I was saying is there is certain fanbases out there that some games are geared to. There is a reason DDR makes decent sales regardless if others think of it as a casual rythm game, it's aimed to those who pride themselves on DDR.
It doesn't make sense to me when you talk about all these old-school games with a trembling voice and then blame Nintendo for....basically staying Nintendo. Because, if you love old-school type of games, you surely can't prefer the 360 or the PS3, right? 'Super Paper Mario' is the kind of game everyone would have been excited about back in the days. And of all the stationary consols at the market now, Wii is the one that stays closest to classic gaming.
But I get the impression that you don't really want classic style games. I get the impression that you wish Wii would offer games more like the ones available on PS3 and 360. To me, this is like blaming a toy manufacturer, that used to make toy cars when you were a kid, for not making real cars now when you are an adult. Would you truely enjoy those old school games if they were released now? I don't think so. Why do you expect the producer of something like the original Donkey Kong to do games for 30 year olds just because YOU got older?
NP:Killer7, Viewtiful Joe
MadWorld, Rampage: Total destruction Xbox360: GTA IV, Assassin's creed
Good God! I love the N64 so much! (although, this line-up was made after the success of the NES and the SNES, giving them the freedom to make a ton of truly awesome games.)
You know, maybe if people bought Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess in the same volume they buy Wii Play and Brain Age, they'll start catering to us again. In other words, get your grandma to play Zelda!!!
I would like Nintendo to just beef up their 2nd party side of things. Then this wouldn't be such an issue. Some companies I like ...
1.) Mistwalker + Feel Plus - Really liked Blue Dragon (Lost Odyessy was OK). That type of game I think would do much better on the Wii than the 360. Mistwalker could also work with Monolith.
2.) Nagoshi's Sega Team - Monkey Ball was great but I personally loved F-Zero GX. I'd like for Nintendo to just have this team outright.
3.) One really good Western studio. Like on par or close to Retro Studios.
Ditch NST.
Pete D.
Former Staff Guru
NST made Wave Race: Blue Storm, which was pretty kickass.Ditch NST.
Besides, even if we assume that NST isn't a worthwhile developer (and I can't say very much to that, as I don't have any of their more recent games), they still have people who can be useful. If they're making bad games, it's their designers who need to be replaced. Rather than hiring a bunch of Digi-Pen graduates who think they know how to make games, hire people from industry who actually do. Then give them creative free-reign to make whatever they want.
"The hunger to always be dangling from the very moment of release is the Goddamned scourge of gaming journalism as an industry." - Tycho
"2 + 2 is ... 10. In base 4, I'm fine!" - GLaDOS, Portal
PC gaming vs. Console gaming
Formal Definition of "Videogame"
One good game every 7 years for a studio that reportedly has like 80-100 people is woeful output though.
If NST is tying up money/resources that could be going to legitimately good Western dev house that can actually release games ... I think NST needs to be dropped. They had a long time now to get their shit together and they still haven't.
Relocate the people who are useful there to Retro or Factor 5.
Pete D.
Former Staff Guru
Sorry, you hate NST but like Factor 5? The last good game from them was Rogue Squadron 2, which you may recall came out before the second Waverace.
certain functional
Haha I just had to say that Blue Storm was not "pretty kickass" when you compare it to the original.
Today, Wave Race 64 is still a damn fine game.
Blue Storm, on the other hand, seems to have aged worse than its N64 sibling.
NST can make good games (Mario vs Donkey Kong on the GBA) but I agree, it's about the designers and not the actual programmers.
Mark Medina
Staff Writer and Australian Correspondent
N-Sider.com
Nintendo's pretzels are making me thirsty!
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Rogue Squadron III was a decent game, but man these guys really need a crash course on on-ground 3D.
Hopefully EAD can give it to them. If they blow it with Kid Icarus they're on shaky ground in my book also.
If they can turn it around with Kid Icarus, though, they would be a very valuable commodity for Nintendo.
Pete D.
Former Staff Guru
Again with the Kid Icarus schtick.
Bawhahhawha!
You can't honestly expect it to be any good, can you? Especially if it's actually coming from Factor 5?
I'm willing to give them one chance.
NST has had the last seven years and their output has been pretty woeful.
I'm willing to give devs a lot of leeway. Even Rare, when Nintendo sold them they were only two years removed from Perfect Dark and Conker's Bad Fur Day, both which were very good games for their time.
But after a while, it's time to do something. How NST still can't have a single completed Wii title two years after being one of the first Western studios to get dev kits is quite pathetic. The money Nintendo is using on NST would be better off with a different Western developer IMO.
Pete D.
Former Staff Guru
Say what you want, but NST is superior to F5. Mario vs. Donkey Kong is good. MvDK2 is completely different but also good. I have yet to play a single good F5 game.
Don't even pretend to bring up Rare again. Your argument will lose all credibility.
Besides, it's not NST who decides what games they get to make. That much is completely obvious. They've been shafted with ideas "third-rate" ideas, or stuff that wasn't going to work well fromt he start, more often than not. Metroid Prime: Hunters, for example. A solid title, but not exactly suited to the franchise OR the platform. They do well with what they're given.
Well y'know there's the whole other thing about Factor 5 probably being able to get a Wii game or two out before the decade is out.
Last edited by Pete; 08-04-2008 at 04:53 AM.
Pete D.
Former Staff Guru
What does that have got to do with it? First of all, you have nothing to base that comment on and second, even if they release two games in the next two years (really?) who says they'll be any good?
But on the other hand, we have different fingers.
All you need to know is that you're just wrong.Don't even pretend to bring up Rare again. Your argument will lose all credibility.
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The problem with Nintendo's 2nd party setup is the painfully slow production.
Retro + NST + Monolith combined are three dev houses with about 250+ staff members between them.
All of them have been working on Wii software for over 2 1/2 years.
In that time, these three companies combined have delivered .... 1 Wii game for Nintendo. And no, Rare was never this bad.
And don't get me wrong, I like the Monolith acquisition, but holy cow, this level of production is a big reason why Nintendo gets into trouble with their release lists.
That can't be acceptable. And I dunno, maybe Nintendo just hasn't made some of the wisest choices in this regard either. You're right -- the Factor 5 thing could also blow up in their face, but at least they should be able to get a game done within a reasonable time frame and we can judge their ability based on the merits of an actual playable product, not vaporware.
Again, you look at a company like Insomniac that has delivered Sony three really good PS3 titles and one more PSN title ... all of which are high quality. As much as l like Retro and Monolith and to a lesser extent NST, man, if this is going to be their level of output, I'd rather have one Insomniac type studio working with Nintendo than all three of these three studios combined.
Last edited by Pete; 08-04-2008 at 05:03 PM.
Pete D.
Former Staff Guru
I don't think NST is (or ever was supposed to) make a Wii a game, unless I'm missing some secret release. NST is pretty much useless regardless of the discussion :P. MP3 came out a year ago, so Retro is doing something. Maybe they've gotten to the point of being able to handle multiple projects now. We don't know what they're working on or have been working on so hopefully we'll find out not too long from now.
Like you said, Factor 5 is slow, always have been to some extent IMO. Just like SK who's following in NST's footsteps these days, chasing the DNF lineage with Too Human. Rare hasn't done much quality wise. It'd better if they had released nothing compared to PDZ and VP IMO. The titles have done 0 for the platform, more isn't always better in this regard. Insomniac has churned out some decent titles so far this gen. no doubt. Although, I would have to exclude R&C from "high quality". Resistance has its merits, mainly as a launch title like RS for the Wii, so I'll wait to experience the whatever differences there are of the sequel.
Monolith Soft was acquired almost 1.5yrs ago by Nintendo. They've churned out a DS title since then. They've been rumored to being working an RPG in addition to D: Doc. If Monolith and Retro come out with something top notch in 2009, I think it would be worth the wait. NST aside, I think it has been "too long" as far as announcements go from these two companies. Quality development of a quality title takes at least 18 months, especially if you're starting from scratch on an engine.
Lol, of course all of this comes from the delusions of the E3 "fallout".
"I'm sick of the hardware whores....just fuckin' sick. It's all a numbers game with you people. I think this is Nintendo's way of giving you the middle finger, and I will never be able to thank them enough for that." -Neko
"I mean, most of the ideas listed in this thread are NICE to have, but would I drop between $120-150 on them? Hells of no." -Hitoshura
More like we're two years into this generation and the companies that are pulling their weight are showing their stripes, the ones that are not delivering the goods are also showing theirs.
It shouldn't take 3 1/2 years for a team to figure out how to make a game on the easiest to program for system on the market.
There are similar sized PS3/360 teams doubling-tripling the output of some of these Nintendo invested houses working on higher end HD consoles.
Factor 5 is also maybe 1/3 the size of a studio like NST. I think Factor 5 is like 25 people, NST is 80-100. Maybe Nintendo just has bad luck or they have poor management of 2nd party teams.
Pete D.
Former Staff Guru
Wasn't NST working on Project Hammer? And didn't that get canceled? Presumably, that could have been something to release in the latter half of 2008.In that time, these three companies combined have delivered .... 1 Wii game for Nintendo.
The really funny part is that after canceling Hammer, Nintendo now comes up with a peripheral that might have made it a more reasonable game.
Assuming a 2-year development cycle with a competent staff, all it takes is 12 development teams to fill those 2 years with 1 game every two months.Quality development of a quality title takes at least 18 months, especially if you're starting from scratch on an engine.
The problem isn't that Nintendo doesn't have the development resources to pump out titles. The problem is that about half of them are focused on non-gamer titles. And that they don't want to properly use those resources.
For all of Nintendo's talk about Wii making game development easier, it still took Retro 3 years to make Prime 3, when the first one only took 2 years (built from "scratch").
"The hunger to always be dangling from the very moment of release is the Goddamned scourge of gaming journalism as an industry." - Tycho
"2 + 2 is ... 10. In base 4, I'm fine!" - GLaDOS, Portal
PC gaming vs. Console gaming
Formal Definition of "Videogame"
Half is probably an overstatement. Nintendo really doesn't make that many "non-games".
And anyways, why should Wii Sports for instance prevent NST from getting a game out on schedule? It's not like they were working on it. Or Retro. Or Monolith.
And you're probably right about Metroid Prime 3 ... I think if Retro didn't have the existing Metroid Prime engine to work off of that game might not even be out yet.
Nintendo is saddled with some really damn slooooooooooow ass dev teams.
And the "but great games take time" thing falls flat too, because with the exception of about three Wii-only projects (Galaxy, Prime 3, and Brawl) none of the games Nintendo has published really are 9/10 or better type games.
They're taking forever to release above average games working on SD/last-gen hardware to boot.
Pete D.
Former Staff Guru
You forgot to figure in Nintendo's policy of "delays". I don't see how you are surprised, upset, whatever, etc. Not too long ago I was hearing about how Nintendo can't do it ("core" games) all by themselves and that it was up to 3rd parties to help, etc. If 3rd parties can't get in gear on the "core" front fast enough for some, then what? Out comes the magic bag? Nintendo has always been a bit on the slow side tbh and Retro was probably under some hella' pressure after the dismal sales of MP2 (which was crapped out too fast *gasp*) to try and repeat MP1. Again, this usually means "take more time" in the house of Nintendo. This can be unfortunate in certain circumstances, but it's nothing new.
"Casual" titles aren't taking up 50% of the resources. Surely they're taking up some, as every 2-3 "Wii-" or "casual" titles could be another StarFox or Pikmin, etc. Resources and time end up being shared so it's not really possible to devote 100% to one or the other. This relates to what I wrote above, while what's below still stands...
Definitions of a "great" or "quality" game vary, in response to "but great games take time". ~Regardless, this still doesn't change that you're looking at not much less than 18 months as I already said, for development time. That goes for both Monolith and Retro... and we don't know what NST is doing anymore these days lol. Of course, come early-mid 2009, Monolith and/or Retro aught to have their fruit on shelves IMO.
Last edited by NNCubed; 08-04-2008 at 09:23 PM.
"I'm sick of the hardware whores....just fuckin' sick. It's all a numbers game with you people. I think this is Nintendo's way of giving you the middle finger, and I will never be able to thank them enough for that." -Neko
"I mean, most of the ideas listed in this thread are NICE to have, but would I drop between $120-150 on them? Hells of no." -Hitoshura
The way Matt over at IGN is talking don't expect anything completely new from Retro anytime soon. Probably mid-fall 2010 is when the next Retro bus is coming through the station from the sounds of it. They've lost some staff.
I think Disaster: DoC may have been canned or is being reworked entirely.
Maybe with WiiMotion Plus, Project: Hammer is back on for ... 2011, lol.
I'm thinking Pikmin 3, Punch-Out! Wii (Next Level Games), Wii Sports Resort, and hopefully something from EAD Tokyo (Donkey Kong Wii?) will be Nintendo's bedrock titles for 2009. That mythical Matsuno-Monolith RPG might even turn out to be legit. Would be surprised if Mario & Sonic 2 isn't a go as well.
Last edited by Pete; 08-04-2008 at 10:10 PM.
Pete D.
Former Staff Guru
Lol @ Project Hammer. That game always looked pretty shallow to me, and this is coming from someone who likes WiiSports etc. I never saw much in it. I had heard the staff issues going on at Retro earlier like everyone else. It would be sad if that really impacted their schedule. I'm sure it did, but to what extent is unknown. The videogame business is doing good overall, even though it's still cut-throat in many ways.
I can't help but feel that way though, especially when my employer just cut 5% of the workforce recently. It's very good compared to most companies these days with 10-20% cuts, but still.
"I'm sick of the hardware whores....just fuckin' sick. It's all a numbers game with you people. I think this is Nintendo's way of giving you the middle finger, and I will never be able to thank them enough for that." -Neko
"I mean, most of the ideas listed in this thread are NICE to have, but would I drop between $120-150 on them? Hells of no." -Hitoshura
I'm still surprised at the 3rd party 'effort' in regards to Wii.
Fair enough, Nintendo are not in a position to supply the product we're talking about, whether they wanted to or not.
But I honestly had expected one, two, perhaps even more, 3rd party announcements by this stage into the cycle – that would position a Dead Rising port correctly.
I guess the 'in and around E3' message might of the '360 year-long launch window' type.
Maybe Nintendo themselves have been taken surprise.
I'm really starting to feel the Wii is really just a dry run for a lot of devs until Wii 2 is ready. Even for Nintendo in a lot of ways (Wii Motion Plus and what not).
A lot of them just don't know what they're doing on the system and I think a lot of them are just not going to be successful on it. If they haven't figured it out by now I don't think there's going to some magic switch that turns on later.
I will call it now though -- Grand Theft Auto for the Wii in time for Christmas 2009, based off the PS2 games/engine.
Pete D.
Former Staff Guru
Eh, I think the M+ was from a possible "threat" by MS or Sony more than Nintendo "working out the bugs" of the Wii platform. The M+ is so cheap and simple, everyone knows that they could've released it a while ago most likely. The only area I think Nintendo is surprised in is the current inability of most 3rd party developers to really use the platform overall evenly (without the M+ to boot). Sure the M+ will help a good deal, but not if they're clueless to begin with.
Perhaps it's the idea that 90% of the industry (aside from the big IPs of S-E, Konami, Capcom, Namco, etc.) thinks they can't compete against the quality of Nintendo software? This may be true to an extent, but when effort is put forth (RS?, RRR, NMH, RE, etc.), not-so-surprising things can happen. Most are nothing but sheep that mimic what Nintendo is doing "differently". "We can't top Zelda, but hey WiiSports/Play/Fit/Games look easy to emulate and they sell well." This doesn't work either. The good thing is that not all developers are following this route, at least not 100%. I think more should be like High Voltage or Capcom/EA at the very least in terms of support, variety, and quality. I think it's something that's not happening fast enough for some "core" gamers. Myself, I'd like to see progress faster than I am, but the current trend isn't that bad. 2009 should be really telling of what's releasing for Wii or Wii2.
In the event that no grand announcements happen from here on out ( which means 2009 since they will all occur closer to their respective releases), I'd say confidently that most 3rd parties are chicken-shit in the risk department. There's a respectable lot that are doing decent or better though. True, I can't blame someone for wanting to play it safe or take the easy route, but $$$ is passing them by. You can then get into the "casuals may not last forever" vs. "bridge titles" like SSBB/SMG/MKWii vs. regular "core" titles like Zelda vs. "this is disruption at it's finest" arguments. Personally, I think they're all apart of the big picture as valid concerns and some as facts.
For what it's worth I think Nintendo has created an effective black-hole in the industry, to their advantage. ~That is not the "they're ruining/abandoning the hardcore (titles)" notion.
Last edited by NNCubed; 08-05-2008 at 07:31 PM.
"I'm sick of the hardware whores....just fuckin' sick. It's all a numbers game with you people. I think this is Nintendo's way of giving you the middle finger, and I will never be able to thank them enough for that." -Neko
"I mean, most of the ideas listed in this thread are NICE to have, but would I drop between $120-150 on them? Hells of no." -Hitoshura
I think the issue is the DS, while being revolutionary as well has one key difference from the Wii.
The DS was still a legitimate generational leap from the GBA in terms of hardware on top of bringing the touchscreen + microphone to the table. The DS can do N64/Playstation level 3D and better 2D than the GBA.
The Wii has a new interface as well, but the hardware is basically in the PS2/GC/XBox era.
I think this throws a lot of developers for a loop because they don't want to be stuck developing on last gen technology by and large. That's just the sense that I get.
Pete D.
Former Staff Guru
What the hell are you talking about?
That is a problem with Nintendo in general.
Remember Miyamoto UPENDING TEA TABLES, etc. at Retro?
Remember how great Metroid Prime turned out as a result?
Remember how much of a letdown the sequel was after they "proved" their merit with the original (according to everyone I've talked to -- I have never and will never play it)?
I'm willing to bet Metroid Prime 3 had a much bigger "Nintendo touch" than Metroid Prime 2. Buuut that's just a guess.
It is precisely because they are Nintendo owned that they churn out games at such a slow rate. Even Nintendo's own first-party studios are dreadfully slow in comparison to your precious Insomniac. For the last three consoles, we've had ONE Mario game per console. The "Mario team" is allegedly working on a new game, but that doesn't mean it's going to come out in a year (or even two!), like Insomniac tends to do. Nintendo is Nintendo, whether it's first or second party. To expect anything different is just silly.
I could go on. I won't. You get the picture. I hope. For once. Please.
Project HAMMER...
Last edited by Jonathan; 08-06-2008 at 04:26 PM.
It's not a problem with Nintendo EAD in general. Nintendo internally has been pumping out a fair amount of titles this gen.
There's a difference between taking time to work on a game to ensure quality and not being able to get a game finished because your studio is dysfunctional or mired by bad management.
The upending the tea table thing is really overstated. Yeah Miyamoto does that on certain projects, but Nintendo ships many games which are decent-to-average all the time like Mario Party, Mario Strikers, Link's Crossbow Training, Excite Truck, etc. etc.
Taking 18 months to get a game out fine, but when you're getting into the territory of 3+ years and you still can't deliver one game -- you suck as a studio. That's just the truth. And puh-lease, Disaster: DoC or Project: Hammer are not going to be Metroid Prime quality even if those devs worked on those games for another 18 months.
They're going to be in that Mario Strikers/Battallion Wars/Excite Truck quality range most likely, the difference being those above mentioned games didn't need 3 years of development time to be completed.
Last edited by Pete; 08-06-2008 at 04:47 PM.
Pete D.
Former Staff Guru
Then why are you talking about it, if you've never played it and don't plan to? Echoes had its problems, but none of them stemmed from "improper" governance by Nintendo. And despite its problems, it was still a great game.Remember how much of a letdown the sequel was after they "proved" their merit with the original (according to everyone I've talked to -- I have never and will never play it)?
I don't see how (by your theory), since the game has more influences from Echoes than Prime.I'm willing to bet Metroid Prime 3 had a much bigger "Nintendo touch" than Metroid Prime 2. Buuut that's just a guess.
"The hunger to always be dangling from the very moment of release is the Goddamned scourge of gaming journalism as an industry." - Tycho
"2 + 2 is ... 10. In base 4, I'm fine!" - GLaDOS, Portal
PC gaming vs. Console gaming
Formal Definition of "Videogame"
I've played and owned all 3 MP's. MP2 was a pretty good game, but I agree that MP3 is better (which isn't always the case with sequel progression). IMO, MP2 did feel a little rushed, but still good. MP2 was CERTAINLY released way too soon, which also contributed to the "sales hurt" vs. MP1 (more than normal sequel progression dictates on average). MP2 has sold have of what MP1 did, MP3 is on track to end up in between.
MP1 = 2.8m
MP2 = 1.3m
MP3 = 1.45m
I urge you not to forget what really matters. What matters is the bottom line, it's math where you must make a certain amount above your costs. I don't think MP2 lost Retro/Nintendo money, but it obviously didn't meet their sales goals. Reggie came out publicly and said it himself. This is why Mario Party continues to be put out the way it is despite what some think (including myself). Nintendo is notorious for their development methods. At times we love it and are thankful for it, other times we're pained by it. Again and again, it's nothing new.
Smaug, by "Nintendo touch" I think he means that Nintendo was all up in Retro's "business" (development) to make sure that the title was up to their standards. You can see the difference in the finished product. MP3 may have borrowed a few elements from MP2 (of course, it's a sequel), but that's irrelevant as far as quality, production, presentation, etc. are concerned. Again, MP3 will likely end up selling somewhere between MP1 and MP2 partially due to very little marketing, but mostly because the MP series is "done" to a lot of gamers with a zero multi-player presence.
FYI, MP3's music is sick.
Last edited by NNCubed; 08-06-2008 at 07:37 PM.
"I'm sick of the hardware whores....just fuckin' sick. It's all a numbers game with you people. I think this is Nintendo's way of giving you the middle finger, and I will never be able to thank them enough for that." -Neko
"I mean, most of the ideas listed in this thread are NICE to have, but would I drop between $120-150 on them? Hells of no." -Hitoshura
I never said the game sucked. In fact, I never expressed any opinion at ALL about the game. I only repeated what I've read just about everywhere. Including on these forums.
Sorry I offended you. I didn't know we weren't allowed to talk about games we never played. I guess henceforth I'll never make any comment whatsoever about anything ever again unless I've experienced it firsthand, even if said comment is merely a paraphrase of what seems to be the popular opinion.
Should probably delete every post about a game that isn't out yet, while we're at it.
Metroid is too cerebral and slow paced (even Metroid Prime 3) for the mass audience. The first sold more because it had a lot of pent up hype behind it, but even that game as I recall was incredibly front loaded. It had a very strong first month and then had a fairly large drop-off even by its second month.
If you want a blockbuster FPS on a Nintendo platform it has to have a strong multiplayer component first and foremost.
Also the slow paced/solitary/back tracking aspects of the Metroid series I think are hit and miss. Some people like it, but I think most people would like a more fast paced experience.
Making Metroid Prime 3 was a mistake I think if you're talking strictly about commercial success. If Retro had made a new FPS title for the Wii from the ground up more focused on gun fights and multiplayer it probably could have sold a lot better than Prime 3.
The James Bond IP really honestly was the perfect IP match for Nintendo. It was something that is still oddly "family approved" (since most people's parents grew up on the franchise too) and yet very relevant to teenagers/college aged kids and everyone in between. There's just no easy to replicate that type of a character appeal though .... forget about game makers, Hollywood screenwriters have been trying for decades. Probably was a bit of naiveté on Nintendo/Rare's part to think they could just snap their fingers with Joanna Dark and garner the same sales.
Of course the game would still have to be very good, you can't just slap the 007 IP on a mediocre product (ala EA did) and expect sales.
Last edited by Pete; 08-06-2008 at 07:50 PM.
Pete D.
Former Staff Guru
You be surprised how certain leads of any kind of department (game related or not) can impact the production of a project. So I am not surprised, though dissapointing as it was to see it come to light, I hope o hear of some form of progress on whatever they are making.
From the sound of things, I think it's being re-invented, lord knows if that is bad or good just yet. As far as HAMMER goes... I'd wait till 2011 for that game, I always had some form of appeal to it.
If Nintendo is to play it smart (and the rumors of FaceBreaker having Little Mac as a secret character), they would wait on announcing Punch-Out!! Wii for FaceBreaker's initial release sales to start dwindling. Lord knows people will buy certain games if certain fan characters are in them. On the RPG front I can only hope (note that I said hope) it's a new Baten Kaitos game, I enjoyed them well. Also though, Monolith still has right to make another Xeno game if they wish (though not Xenosaga in it's entirety, since Namco own those specific rights to those characters).
I think we can agree Nintendo needs to expand its development capabilities though.
So much attention is paid to the Wii in this regard, but what about the DS?
It's crazy how much Nintendo's production for the DS has dropped the last while.
So what happens when the DS2 comes out? Does it mean Wii development will have to take a hit? They need to plan better so it isn't an either or choice (ie: Nintendo stating a few weeks ago they had to transfer a lot of their DS dev resources to the Wii side).
Nintendo is making more than enough money to provide both platforms with ample software without having to make sacrifices. If this is a problem now, it will only get worse with Wii 2/DS2.
Like for instance what about Red Fly Studios? They are making Mushroom Men, which honestly IMO might be the second best looking Wii title I've ever seen after Super Mario Galaxy. Guess which city they based in? Austin, Texas. Which is also home to Retro Studios. I think it would be cool if Nintendo invested in them, maybe if it was agreeable to both teams they could work together.
Last edited by Pete; 08-08-2008 at 05:24 AM.
Pete D.
Former Staff Guru
This is actually pretty frightening to say this, but; I actually can agree with this. Mushroom Men looks phenomenal, on top of that the company has shown some talent backing the company up. Now, not saying Nintendo should do this (or that they have failed me if they don't), but I am stating that the basic idea behind it sounds smart. Considering the smaller development team to begin with, making their talent still affordable in some ways.
PS: Red Fly Studios is also making the Wii version of Ghostbusters, kickassity in of itself right there.
I think that's an oversimplification though. To be fair, Wii launched at the end of 2006 and I would say that most of the interested third parties have only jumped on board within the last six months or so (just look at EA's admission that they "missed the boat"). I would say a lot of developers fall into that category.It shouldn't take 3 1/2 years for a team to figure out how to make a game on the easiest to program for system on the market.
There are similar sized PS3/360 teams doubling-tripling the output of some of these Nintendo invested houses working on higher end HD consoles.
Larger developers can take even longer to change course. It's like trying to to turn the titanic at the last minute in some cases - and not necessarily from a development-specific point of view, but from a corporate/business point of view.
I think Wii was doing incredibly well before many large and medium-sized developers bothered to pay attention. Now that they are, it's like a last-minute scramble to push stuff out the door. Hopefully this will even out in the next year.
That's true. Product mix aside, it's true that Nintendo can't shoulder the entire burden on their own. Also their "experimentation model" possibly eats up a fair amount of resources, often without any immediate result (even though some may argue that this model produces games like Super Mario Galaxy - it comes back to a quality versus quantity discussion I guess).The problem isn't that Nintendo doesn't have the development resources to pump out titles. The problem is that about half of them are focused on non-gamer titles. And that they don't want to properly use those resources.
It seems as though several key developers are now racing to catch up to a ship that began sailing a while ago. I just hope that doesn't lead to too many crappy titles in the interim.
I was actually talking about NST and Monolith Soft when I was saying it's going to take them 3 1/2 years to get a game out on the system.
As for the "devs rush content" thing ... is this really even new?
Last year was the same story with NiGHTS: JoD, Soul Calibur Legends, Rayman Raving Rabbids 2, etc. and a number of other titles like that which were rushed to market.
I think this is becoming a pattern more than something new.
Pete D.
Former Staff Guru
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